The people who say Vince Youg Is going to be the next big thing i dont think have ever really watched him play. Dont get me wrong he is an great athlete but not an amazing athlete. People want to try and compare him to Michael Vick Which is absolutley ludacris Michael Vick is the best athlete ive ever seen and you simply cant compare the two. Hes good athletically but not good enough for him to stand out in the NFL he does not have the hip swerve needed to make people miss he runs ttoo straight lined and trys to run people over which hes not gonna be able to do in the NFL.

So if hes not gonna be able to run then you gotta look at how he throws. The first thing i notice is his horible mechanics if i give my girlfriend a football and tell her to throw it to me i think she has better mechanics. But some people say look at Bernie Kosar or look at Kenny Stabler (personally ive never seen them play because i was not born yet or i was like three years old) ok so if he can play with those mechanics you have to look at his average maybe slightly above arm strength and his average throwing accuracy. Also if you ever TiVoed or recorded one of his games I want you to watch only his passing plays and tell me how many recievers he looks at before he throws the ball???? He only looks at one then hell pull the ball down and run like I said hes not going to be able to do that in the NFL.

I know so of you are going to be immature and say your a moron blah blah blah but do me a favor if you disagree please give me and example of why im ewrong and just dont tell me im wrong caused ive wached alot of tape on this guy and i think what i say is pretty accurate

p.s. the NFL is not a running quarterbackes leauge the average rushing yards per game of the quarterbacks in the playoffs is 4.6 yards per GAME!!!!!!!!!!!

The thing about Young isn't just his athletic ablity, it's that he actually is a solid prospect to develop as a pocket passer. He made huge strides this past season. He looks for the pass first now. He still needs a lot of work in reading a defense and fixing his throwing motion, but he's not too far away from being ready.

he looks horrible in the pocket hes not even close to being ready like you said he needs help reading defences and work on his throwing motion last itme i checked thats two pretty big things in being a quarterbackif he hasent learned by now he wont learn.

You know as I think about this past season, I can't recall too many plays where Vince Young actually ran over defenders. I seem to remember him running around them more often than not.

Franchise9988= idiot kid.


You really need to learn more about the game before you start talking bust and other big draft buzz words with the big boys.

see there is no need to say franchise9988= idiot kid that is just immature

no its the truth. everything you have said has been immature.

no everything i said has been my opinion and just becasue you dont like some of my opinions doesent mean you have to be immature

Punctuation is fun. I'd respond to what you said, but I went temporarily-blind about halfway through that mess of a first post, so that's all I can give.

I agree that Vince Young will bust, and that his mechanices are horrible, and that his arm strength seems to be lacking. But you don't just come out and call people out to have an opinion that isn't yours so you can call them wrong, without backing it up.

I didn't realize how self-absorbed and anal the veteran members around here were.

Dude, have you read his posts? I hate Jay Cutler....Vince Young is a bust. He argues, and tries to force his opinion on others, which is a lame thing to do.

Hey guys, talk about Vince Young in this thread and whether or not you think he's a bust. Talk about posters via private messages, please.

fyi, about arm strength, vince had the best arm strength at the elite 11 camp, and that included signal-callers such as ben olson, drew olson, trent edwards, tyler palko, aj bryant (i believe), etc. -- all big-armed qbs. to say he doesn't have a strong arm is not accurate. rolling left, the dude can throw a 60 yard pass.. that's saying something about arm-strength. i love leinart, but i'm pretty sure vince has a stronger arm. then again, we'll see come workout time.

I am pretty sure when people question Vince Young's arm strength, they know he can throw it far. The problem is that I don't think he has ever thrown a bullet pass. Every throw I have seen him make has been either an absolute bomb where he just throws it up and his recievers make the play on the ball, or an easy pass to his wide open TE on a rollout.

another thing that makes vince a good qb, is his will to win. he is a leader and never gives up. he has broken alot of tackles throughout the season. all he needs is some coaching and he will be fine as a passer, especially if he goes to tennessee with norm chow. how scary vy would be if he went to tennessee.

I was doing some basic draft grades the other day and when it came to Arm strength, I had both Young and Leinart rated as B+. Neither has a cannon, but both have arm's more than good enough to be successful players in the NFL. Young's arm is off because of his throwing motion, tends to have the ball either sail or just have a sort of looping pattern, very difficult to throw bullets out of that position without them being knocked down, like Dee said. When you talk about his deep ball, it isn't perfect, but generally he throws it so that his WR has the best chance to catch it, and also times them very well (shows his development from Jr year to Sr year).

I'm not saying that his arm motion needs to be completely changed, rather it should just be tweaked until they can find a position that is both comfortable for him, and allows him to be a little more versatile in terms of the way his passes move. Too much change and he'll revert back whenever he's in trouble; though with the way he plays on the run it might not be that terrible a thing.


And adding onto what soup just said, it took me watching the old Super Bowl memories show on ESPN to make me realize just how much he really does resemble a young Steve McNair. McNair had that one play where he broke away from 2 Rams to make a perfect 30 yard pass on the run, and I said to myself that's the kind of play Young can make (eventually).

I agree with the McNair comparison as well, both in terms of potential and in terms of a need for a patient team to give him an adjustment period. If some team were to draft him and throw him into the starting lineup, things could get ugly.

Vince Young reminds me of Randal Cunningham, who early in his career was a scrambler, but by the time he was with the Vikings was more of a pocket passer. Young will need some polish no doubt. He will have much to learn, he is a young kid and hasn't seen complex defensive schemes. But on the physical standpoint the reason he will be drafted so high is because what he can become. Young will always be a dual threat QB, you wouldn't want to stifle the running aspect of his game, but he is more accuarte than people give him credit for. He needs to be in the right offense to highlight his ability, he won't be a West Coast Offense, stand in the pocket kind of guy, he needs to play in a wide open spread attack, maybe single or no backfield, get him out of the pocket on roll outs with a run-pass option.

I agree. Vince Young can actually throw the ball.

I was never a big fan of Vince Young as an NFL QB, until I actually sat down and watched this kid. I'm not gonna talk about his mechanics, because frankly I don't watch for them. This kid can play and shredded opposing defenses. He completed 65% of his passes last year. That's pretty dang accurate even for college. What makes this kid even better is that he just WINS games and shows up big in big games. He probably does need time to adjust to the cerebral part of the game, but every rookie QB does. Give him a year or two behind McNair and you could see something special.

I saw Stabler play in college & the NFL & there wasn't a lot wrong with his mechanics.

He was the 1st left handed QB of note when he went to the Raiders in '67, & that required a lot of adjustment, from the DBs who were used to facing a right-handed offenses, & adjustment from his receivers b/c the ball rotated in the opposite direction.

Young will not be an NFL bust, but the team that drafts him will have to show some extreme patience. His learning curve will bea at least as steep & long as Michael Vick's with Atlanta, maybe even longer, & the biggest factor ther e is the decision-making on whether to pass or run & that's something I'm not completely sure Ron Mexico has learned yet..

I don't understand why people rush to say that VY is gonna be the second coming of Jesus, and think that Omar Jacobs is going to be a bust. They are pretty much the same player in terms of skill.

Skill isn't the only factor though, intangibles are. Jacobs hasn't proven to be the leader that Young is and hasn't played at the level that Young has in big games.

They are similiar QBs when you look at skills, but Young has saved his best for the biggest games and pretty much beat USC and Michigan on his own.

People don't see Omar as the leader Vince was because he plays at BGSU, and not Texas. Omar had no chance to win a National Championship. But the kid was the heart and soul of BGSU. He give them credibility in the MAC, and an answer to rival MAC powerhouse Toledo. Omar's a leader.

There's a reason Young is rated as a top 3 player and Jacobs is a second rounder at best. It's not just Internet fluff. Most specifically, he tore up the MAC, not the Big 12.

Eh, I don't know about that, Miller.

Jacobs came alive in the big games this year, his defense didn't and he didn't have much of a running game. And I really think he wasn't 100 percent all season.

Check these games out:

@Wisconsin: 30-51, 458 yards, 5 TDs, 1 INT. Team loses 56-42, Jacobs sacked 4 times.
@Boise St: 18-36, 220 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INT. Team loses 42-2-
vs.Toledo: 25-43, 315, 3 TDs, 0 INT. Team loses 44-41(OT)

In 2004:

GMAC Bowl vs. Memphis: 26-44, 365, 5 TDs, 1 INT
@Toledo: 36-60, 415, 4 TD, 0 INT
@Oklahoma: 24-41, 2 TD, 0 INT

None of those teams had a USC/Michigan caliber defense though, Dan.

With that argument, shouldn't players who only play in BCS conferences be highly ranked?

No, but when saying a QB had his best games against superior talent, you have to look at the best defenses. Memphis, Toledo and Wisconsin aren't really producing All American defenders from the 2005 season.

I'm not going to argue with two people from Ohio about why a player from Ohio should be ranked higher. Before the year I had Jacobs ranked as my #3 player, but he let me down this year. He reverted back to his bad mechanics, their system was exposed and even if he was hurt, he didn't look the same this year.

You can't hold the "big game" tag against Jacobs though. Who did Big Ben ever play in college? His biggest game was against Lousiville in the Motor City Bowl. Also, Big Ben got rolled against Iowa, yet he seems to be doing okay. At this point we have established that the level of competition card can be a bit skewed.

And contrary to popular belief, there are some MAC teams that play a bit of D.

Let's not say every MAC QB is going to do well because Roethlisberger is either. There are questions about Jacobs that there were never about Roethlisberger.

That's like saying every slow WR will be Jerry Rice.

You know, that's a funny statement coming from a guy whose favorite college team is Texas.

And don't try and corner me as some Ohio college backer. I could care less where he went to school. The only team I would come remotely close to being a backer with is Akron. You should know that.

Have I ever said a Texas player should be ranked higher? It is called being objective.

I'm also the first to point out that Young has flaws, but he is being drafted higher based on two things: 1. Play in the national spotlight and 2. Potential.

He is 80 times more athletic than Jacobs, has produced mind boggling statistics, has won big games, shown he is a leader on the biggest stages and never been injured.

Like I said, Jacobs could be ranked higher, but he has to show something first. If he wanted to be a first round pick, he should have stayed at BGSU.

Really, this is one of the most pointless threads I have ever seen. How can a player be a bust before he's drafted, before you know what system he'll be in, before you know what kind of line he'll have and before you know whom he'll be throwing too.

hey, look, we agree on something in this thread!

Wow...this isn't about Young at this point. The point I'm trying to make is that Jacobs has just as much upside. Sorry to ruffle feathers. And I would hardly call Dan or myself Jacobs fanboys either. I'm just trying to stir up some discussion.

I wasn't trying to knock either of you, or Jacobs for that matter. I'm just saying that there is a reason, actually reasons, why he isn't rated as high as some would like him. Does that mean he can't be a very good NFL QB? No. You mentioned Roethlisberger, another player that should have been rated and drafted higher than he was. The point of rating though is to try and find a balance between talent and potential. There are just a lot of other players with more of that right now than Jacobs.

And to say Young and Jacobs are of the same skill set, I disagree. They are both black, they both have odd throwing motions and they both play out of the shotgun. It really ends there.

It has nothing to do with color. When Roethlisberger was drafted I said he was like Daunte Culpepper.

Jacobs has a bomb of an arm, just as good if not the same strength as Young. I think he's fast, but I will give that Young is better runner. I think both hold up well in the pocket and are tough to bring down. I think Jacobs works the deep routes a bit better than Young, but not much.

I'd say Jacobs has a stronger arm, but isn't as accurate. I also am not a fan of the BGSU offense and how it translates to the NFL.