I was reading the article about them adding Cox and some other guy to the staff and it mentioned that there might be the move to a 34 defense with with Mangini on hand. At firtst thought, this doesn't seem too smart but upon further evaluation, there might be some pieces already in place.

At NT, Dwayne's Robertson's got the size. The question is does he have the strength, ability, workmanlike attitude, and will to become an effective NT? The Jets drafted him to be a gap-shooting penetrating tackle, but now they'd bve asking him to take on blocks and ill lanes. He hasn't shown he could do the former well...at least consistently...and that was supposed to be his niche...so who knows how he would respond if asked to do the latter, to trnasition to a pure nose tackle.

At one end postion, one o the most versatile linemen IMO ould really thrive, in Shaun Ellis. He's a guy that could excel in the 34 IMO. Whern he's on his game, he can be dominant. I think he can be a guy who can play that end postion well, and be able to generate some pressure on is own to boot. The other end postion would need to be addressed tho.

At linebacker, Abraham and Barton strike me as intriguing options on the outside. Another potential benefit is that a forgotten man, Bryan Thomas, might be given an avenue to resucitate his career. Now, it would be alot to ask all three guys to totally change the way they've hitherto played the position, but Abraham especially and Thomas and Barton to lesser extens respectively would be terrors coming off the edge. How they'd do in coverage reamains to be seen and woulod probably be not too good.

Vic Hobson has the size to play in the middle and maybe Barton if he can't play on the outside. Haven't seen alot of the guy, i really don't know how good a player he is...i'm just going off his size. yea i know there's more to the postition than that but hey...it's all i've got. It's friggin 5am, so cut me some slack.

The only thing is that none of those guys i talked about are really game changers, save Abraham, but he would be in a new position so who knows how this would turn out? Furthermore, and most importantly, this potentially eliminates your best playmaker, your best backer and best defensive player, one Johnathan Q. Vilma. Man's about 230lbs and i'm justnot sure that he can be effective in the 3-4.

At some point, Mangini will want to go with what he knows best, right? At some point, he'll want to transition to a 34. Perhaps there exist some pieces to the puzzle already in place...thoughts?

Abraham is as good as gone, so I don't think you need to worry about him. Honestly, they're better off trying to find a solid NT, and play Robertson at one of the DE positions. Try to use him in the Richard Seymour role. Shaun Ellis could be decent as a 3-4 end, but he's a bit small for it. Didn't the Jets toy with using some 3-4 packages over the past two years? Hobson would be fine as an ILB. Thomas could play the plugger role also. Vilma's in trouble, but like RayLew, he'll survive.

I don't see the Jets having the LB's for the job. The Jets went from being a 3-4 team with guys like Mo Lewis and crew, then they tried to plug those guys in as 4-3 Cover 2 backers, and it didn't work. They were too slow, too plodding, bruisers if you will. Now, they are going to try and take more speedy coverage LB's and ask them bang with OG's and hold blocks? Pitiful idea. Barton is one of the least physical LB's I have ever seen, so placing him in a rush LB where he's expected to butt heads with 300 lbs plus OT's is dumb. LIke Hayvlin said, Abraham is gone, and he had little to no impact as a stand up pass rusher (no sacks in the past two years playing LB). Vilma could be okay in that role, but I think it would neutralize a bit of his effectiveness. Hobson is one of the few guys who would do well in the 3-4 on the inside because that's what he did a lot of a Michigan. He could play the SILB well. DeWayne might be okay at NT, and they would have to play him there. Ellis is a beefy DE (around 300 lbs), so I think he could play well at DE because he's played the 5 technique before.

Besides which, I'm pretty sure Mangini said they were going to stick with the 4-3 for now. I can see them evolving to a 3-4 in a year or two, when they can get the proper personnel. I mean, how many teams are now looking for the right NT and plugger ILB? The classic tweeners are getting drafted higher & higher as more teams switch. It makes more sense to buck the trend & stick with the speedy 4-3 defense. Barton & Vilma would definitely be wasting in a 3-4.

Bryan Thomas and Trevor Johnson will move to OLB, Dave Ball has played in a 3-4 before, Sione Pouha is perfect to play anywhere on the line in a 3-4... Not sure if it will be Hobson or Barton to move inside with Vilma, but the draft has plenty of guys who can start right away in a 3-4.

No..

BigC hit the nail on the head. Vilma's effectiveness will be neutralized. That's the big no-no right there. D-Rob would play 3-4 DE in the system, not NT. That leaves us without a 3-4 NT, which is a huge hole. Pouha was garbage his first year. The Jets offense needs to be rebuilt..if the Jets switch to a 3-4 they'll have to use some of the early picks they should be using on offense, to help a defense transition to a 3-4, when it is already effective in 4-3. I wouldn't be surprised to see a slow transition though. Abe traded...a guy like Bobby Carpenter or Gabe Watson drafted in Round 2.

You know what guys, I've been pondering this for a while, and while I love the guy, I'm not exactly sure about Bobby C as a rush LB. Just follow me here, trust me it makes sense...

Bobby was almost never utilized as a true blitzer this year. His biggest sack came from actual blitzing was against Vince Young (when he was in a stand up position). And that was kind of a busted play. The rest of Bobby's sacks came from three point stance in Nickel situations. Now, OSU did play it's Nickel package roughly 60% of time just because of the amount of spread offenses it did play. For as good as he was causing trouble in the backfield, he was just as good in space. I'm not saying that Bobby won't be a good 3-4 OLB, but I'm saying his pass rush moves will need some help.

I'd stick with the 4-3 for now, but I think the 3-4 would work. My thing is this: Mangini is a Dback guy, not a front 7 guy. He needs to work on that secondary, and then focus on changing a front 7 that is pretty good when healthy. They also need to look at available personnel and decide if they can make the move to a 3-4 with FA and the draft, or if they need to work towards it. Look at what Dallas did by targetting 3-4 players in the draft, they made a great turnaround. Sadly, there aren't Chris Canty's and DeMarcus Ware's in this draft.

how can the jets trade john abraham when he doesnt have a contract with them?? thats the thing i wanna know

Its called the Franchise Tag and they've used it on him before.

dont you have to be under the cap enough to tag him?? i mean for abraham it would mean around 8-9 million dollars?? the jets have been said to just let him walk..plus who is to say he wont sign it till the last day anyways again?

No, you don't have to be under the cap to tag him. The deadline to tag is the 27th of Feb I believe, and FA doesn't start til March.

ok cause thats why i was thinking , why they havent made him a franchise offer?? i just think this cap problem is going to hurt the jets a ton..remember what happened to the raiders a couple of years ago when they were this much over the cap after their superbowl run..they still havent been the same

Most teams are just now finishing their Pro evaluations and the Jets got a late start with the new staff coming in. I'm sure if they are going to make an offer, it will be soon. No other teams have tagged yet either.

do you think the jets are fit to be a 3-4 team ??? i mean wouldnt that screw up vilma him being 235 pounds< but the same was said about donnie edwards> dont forget about robertson...he was the #4 pick in the 2003 draft is he a left end or a ng for the kind of money he is making??

Forget money, Robertson could be a NT. I don't think that playing in the 3-4 would mess Vilma up, but I don't think it fits his skill set the best.

he does have the size to be a nt , and shaun ellis has the ability to play right end in the 3-4..i just wonder who would be their rush ends< outside linebackers?

Abraham could, as could Thomas if he'd remember he was a stud pass rusher in college.

does abraham wanna be with this orginzation or likewise?? they are still heated at him for not playing himself in the playoffs last year. yeah thomas was a beast in college..i guess the strain of having to play the run got to him, maybe standing up will help him

I don't see DROIB being a 3-4 NT. He's 6'1 and 305-315. He's more oof a penetrator and still truggles to get off blocks so I think 3-4 end would be the better place for him, if the Jets are desperate I guess we can try it.

Miller's right..

Bryan Thomas would be the X-factor if we do install the 3-4.

imo, Carpenter is an ILB in a 3-4.

Robertson would play NT in a 3-4. He's the same kind of player Wilfork is...I wouldn't worry about it. The Jets would need to add depth at DE though with Thomas moving to OLB (I think he'd be extremely effective there), and I'm not sure if Lance Legree is big enough to be a real threat at 3-4 DE.

The Jets' offense isn't in shambles, they just need to get healthy and get a system installed that puts everyone in a position to succeed. Heimerdinger was just a terrible hire last year (they made some terrible personnel moves, but they aren't crippled).

The Jets should look into working out a trade with Denver for their two picks (Denver would probably take Ferguson to replace Lepsis). They'd have 3 picks in a prime area of the draft and could be looking at snagging Wright and/or Wroten, Lawson, and/or someone else.

Who are we kidding...of course the offense is in shambles. Our starting QB had 2 shoulder surgeries and may never be a starting QB ever again, our starting RB is 32 and showed sikgns of a rapid decline last year, we have no TEs, we have a belowe average WR corps, and our OL is a wreck.

Robertson and Wilfork may be the same breed of player, but Vince has the girth of a true NT, plus he's more talented at just about every single aspect of playing the Defensive Tackle position there is over Dewayne. Stronger, better football speed/quickness, more consistent, and a desire to be great that I'm not sure Dewayne really has.

And here i was last year defending the Jolley trade... :rolleyes:

Well that is what Mangina ran in New England, so if they have the personell I fully expect them to run it.