i made a list of the best rookies by postion tell me if you agree.

QB- K.Orton-CHI
RB- C.Willams-TB
FB-
WR - Chris Henery-CIN
WR- Reggie Brown-PHI
TE - H.Miller-PIT
T- Jammal Brown-NO
G- Logan Mankins-NE
C- Chris Spencer-Sea
DE - Trent Cole-PHI
DT - Mike Patterson-PHI
OLB -Shawne Merriman-SD
MLB- Lofa Tatupu-SEA
CB-Pacman Jones-TEN
S- Thomas Davis
K-Nugent-NYJ

These are most all right you can't do better

S- Nick Collins. Not Thomas Davis

Based on last year, I have to think Darrent Williams gets the nod over Pac-Man.

There are several players I would put over Pac-man. Darrent Williams was certainley one of the most impressive, I would also put William's teammate Dominique Foxworth above Pac-Man. For best rookie CB I'd say it's Fabian Washington. All Pac Man showed was a poor attitude, lack of effort and good return skills.

Chris Harris, S Chicago Bears also played very, very well this year. Starting from day one. 48 tackles, 3 Int's, 1 sack, 5 pass defl.

I like that you have Kyle Orton, played very well for a rookie and I'm sick of people hating on him.

I know Caddilac had the better stats, but I would take Ronnie Brown over him.

HAHAHAA thanks for the laugh. *cough* homer *cough*

ill admit that i didnt watch too many seahawks games this year, but did spencer play this year? i remember there being a giant bitchfest about him being a bust a while back because he didnt play.

id put braylon edwards on there as wr. he was playin great until he got injured. and id also put charlie fry instead of kyle orton he played better when he played.

Sorry but I don't like your list at all:

QB: Charlie Frye
RB: Ronnie Brown
WR: Mark Clayton
TE: Heath Miller
OG: Logan Mankins
C: None
OT: Alex Barron
DT: Luis castillo
DE: Chris canty
OLB: DeMarcus Ware
ILB: Lofa Totupu
CB: Darrent Williams
S James Butler

homer :D thats what everyone else is gonna say

How can you leave Reggie Brown off of there and put Clayton on there? Reggie Brown might have had 1 fewer reception, but he had 100 more receiving yards, a higher YPC, and more TDs. He also had the likes of Koy Detmer and Mike McMahon throwing to him most of the time.

QB Charlie Frye
RB Carnell Williams
WR Reggie Brown
TE Heath Miller
OT Jammal Brown
OG Dan Buenning
C Drew Hodgdon

DE Erasmus James
DT Mike Patterson
OLB Shawne Merriman
MLB Lofa Tatupu
CB Ellis Hobbs
S Nick Collins

P Chis Kluwe
K Mike Nugent
KR Jerome Mathis

Compare the stats and tell me Butler was better

Butler: 1start 35tackles 30solo 5assist 2itns 3PD 1FF
Collins: 16starts 84tackles 63solo 21assist 1int 7PD 2FF


also Collins was making all the secondary calls also he got his hands on another five balls he just couldnt coral them in.

CB are you basing your Butler prediction on the future, or the present?

OT Khalif Barnes over Jammal Brown

I was going to mention that but i didnt think anyone else would agree with me except for the jags fans. Khlaif came in and played at a high level, only letting up a few sacks against some of the better pass rushers.

1. Butler was the only guy I could think of at the time, Josh Bullocks played pretty well also didn't he. Yea I forgot about Nick Collins.

2. Merriman is more flashy and had better stats, but Ware was solid in run and pass and was an ironman, he played in every game and rarely came out. Probably a little homerism.

3. Brown is a good possession guy, but not a real threat to score TDs, he also tailed off toward the end of the season with quite a few drops. Clayton is just a better player. If Braylon Edwards wouldn't have gotten hurt he easily would be the choice. Plus I could never vote for an Eagle, it would be sacrilegious.

You know what, it was just an oversight by me. Apologies are in order. It should be Khalif.

Not a real threat to score TDs? Have you not seen him play? Tailed off towards the end of the season? In the last game he had 2 TDs. He also had Mike McMahon throwing to him. Besides your comment that I have made bold just proves my overall point.

Kerry Rhodes had a pretty good year at Safety as well, I'd put him above James Butler.

About Butler though, I repeat what a joke it was he wasn't drafted. Probably one of the 3 best safeties in the class, and no one takes because there's rumors he had an attitude problem? Bah, it's ridiculous. He and Gibril Wilson should be a good pair for a while.

I was only joking man lighten up.........if he was the best I would have voted for him, but he wasn't. Look, I was high on him last year coming out of college, in fact early in 2004 I was telling everybody that he was better than his team mate Fred Gibson and everybody told me I was crazy. He had a great rookie year, but stats aside, I though Clayton was better. Braylon Edwards and Mark Bradley were also looking better before they got injured.

Harris didn't start from day one, we had to watch Mike Green do nothing for a couple games before Harris stepped in. Which actually makes his stats more impressive, I suppose.

Wasn't Harris getting benched by the end of the season though?

QB Kyle Orton (CHI) - by default
RB Frank Gore (SF)
WR Matt Jones (JAX)
TE Heath Miller (PIT)
OT Nick Kaczur (NE)
OG Logan Mankins (NE)
OC Scott Mruczkowski (SD)

DE Justin Tuck (NYG)
34 Chris Canty (DAL)
DT Mike Patterson (PHI)
OB Leroy Hill (SEA)
34 Shawne Merriman (SD)
IB Odell Thurman (CIN)
CB Ellis Hobbs (NE)
DS Josh Bullocks (NO)

PK Mike Nugent (NYJ)
P Dustin Colquitt (KC)
PR Pacman Jones (TEN)
KR Jerome Mathis (HOU)

Nope. He sprained his knee in the first quarter of the first Green Bay game (week 13) and missed the next two games against Pittsburgh and Atlanta, then came back in the second Green Bay game and nabbed two interceptions, then played sparingly against Minnesota in the last game (as did most of the starters). It's a little early for the Tony Parrish comparisons, but Harris' game seems very similar to Parrish's.

Production wise Justin Tuck and Erazmus James were all bested by Trent Cole.

Mike, James was starting on a very deep DL though. He started out slow, but came on towards the end of the year. Cole couldn't beat out ND Kalu <_<

He couldn't? Actually he did beat out Kalu. Kalu missed 1 game all season, while Cole played in 15 as well, and started 7 games. Kalu knew the defense which is why he started the season, but that didn't last long. Once Cole was given his shot he took over. He was a pass rushing threat and successful as a rush defense defender. Trent Cole was also an All-Rookie Selection, just as Mike Patterson was. A first round pick choosen in the top 20 should be started on most teams, Cole was a 2nd day pick and had more production in less starts.


Really I'm trying to not be a homer here, but when 3 rookies are constantly ignored even though they either were the leaders at their position, or were All-Rookie selections someone has to speak up.

I like to raz Mike about being a bigger homer than I am, but he's correct here, especially about Reggie Brown. Sure, Edwards going down changed things, but with the way things played out, Reggie was the best rookie WR, IMO.

As for Cole, he definitely beat out Kalu, and is much better, but that's pretty much a worthless compliment as my grandma is better than Kalu. Cole had a couple of really good games after he got the starting nod, but his production went in the toilet towards the end of the season. Not that he sucks, but he's more suited to be a nickel rusher.

He was slowed down in his pass rushing, but thats when he learned to defend the run much better. I remember quite a few games where he posted some very good tackle numbers. In fact he posted 4 or more tackles/game 6 times, and hit 8 total tackles against Arizona. On the other hand James only posted 4 or more tackles/game 4 times all season. They both played in 15 games, while James started 2 more games than Cole.

Really? I thought that Cole got an injury start or two (I mean, it is ND Kalu we're talking about), but I didn't realize he had taken over the starting job.

And if Braylon wouldn't have been hurt, he would have been the best rookie WR. He was second the Browns in catches and yards despite missing the last month of the season.

My list is based not just off of production, but what I saw from them. I took the term "best rookie" as who I actually think was the best at each position.

It's really pretty easy for me to say that if I was the Eagles, I would have rather had Justin Tuck than Trent Cole. I try not to penalize for injuries, but it's not as easy to say I'd rather have Erasmus James than Trent Cole...but I wouldn't want Trent Cole instead of Erasmus James if I were the Vikings. One of those situations where hindsight is useful.

Braylon almost made my list, but was edged out by Jones and one or two others.

In aggreement with GH, I still can't believe James Butler didn't get drafted. He was an absolute stud at Georgia Tech. So, he had an attitude problem? I think it's remarkable that Butler - who has no history of legal trouble, was never kicked off his team or anything like that - went undrafted whereas Maurice Clarrett, Darrent Williams, and a whole slew of players with poor character have been drafted. Just ridiculous.

And although Darrent Williams was impressive, Bryant McFadden was the best rookie corner. He gave up nothing all year, and played for the Super Bowl winners, solidifying their secondary.

It wasn't just an attitude problem, Butler had a great junior year but fell off signicantly his senior year. He played a little cautious and didn't make many plays.

Darrent Williams doesn't have poor character, he was drafted right about where he was projected to go.

Bryant McFadden didn't even play that much, he is listed 5th on the depth chart behind Ike Taylor, Deshea Townsend, Ricardo Colclough and Willie Williams.

What, no love for Rob Pettiti? O-line is probably the toughest place for a rookie to play.

I agree that Ronnie Brown, Clayton, Merriman, Tatupu, Canty, Castillo & Ware belong there. And how about TE Heath Miller -- he looked great in the playoffs.

No Pettiti started out pretty good but actualy seemed to regress as the year went along. At first before Flozell Adams got hurt he was given help on the right side, but then the help had to be used on the left to help Torrin Tucker and Pettiti couldn't cut the mustard on an island. He might not even start next year. Heath Miller is already on everybodies list.

So...Gore over Caddy? Please tell me you were doing this just to be different and really don't believe that to be true. Because if the latter is the case...then there are more issues at hand here than can be discussed in a 4-minute post. Caddy gained almost 1200 yards despite missing games to injuries, running behind a sh!t o-line and a qb gettin his first real, consistent, week-to-week starting experience. I'm not saying Gore didn't look very good, but Williams was the near-unanimous ROY for a reason. This goes to all of you who also voted another back over caddy, including his former Auburn tailmate(hee hee, just now made up that word)