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In the months that i've been a member, I've seen Sims Contest Forum go through some changes: membership has almost doubled and there are a lot more contests going on at any given time. But as a result of the increase of contests and contestants, there has also been an increase in some less-than-desirable behaviors.

First, to define out terms:

Withdrawls:contestants who leave a contest because of computer errors, personal situations, etc. --we are not debating withdrawls, these are contestants who leave because they HAVE to, not by choice.

Drop Outs: contestants who leave for trivial and/or inconsequential reasons, i.e dont like their makeovers or the next photoshoot or the host or..... etcetera.

No Shows:contestants who fail to turn in a picture by the deadline, and who do not ask for extensions or alert the host that they need more time. They simply stop participating in the thread and contest without a word of explaination. (this is happening more and more frequently, unfortunately, if the past few contests i've judged are any indication.)

So here's the debate topic: what do we do about irresponsible contestants? I know some hosts are vocal about keeping a sort of personal blacklist for un-dependable contestants, but should there be a more formal system? If so, what? Formal or informal warnings? A temporary ban from participating in contests? Or, should drop-outs simply be considered a part of the whole contest experience and ignored?

Well, first off I thank you for clearly designating the terms before we get started Now, as for consequences:

I think rightoff the bat, I would like to say that, whilst I do not appreciate drop outs, I think that IN SOME CASES, these are justified. Maybe not completely, but if you really don't like the way the other contestants, host, or judges are aacting, that can be coped with. Even things as trivial as makeovers and "next photoshoots", can be justified. I think a lot of dop outs are ridiculous but to some people the reason is reliable , and I don't think there should be tough penalties on them. As for no shows.....


NO SHOWS CAN NOT BE TOLERATED . They are completely rude and it's like they don't even care. Even if you drop out, it is FAR MORE CONSIDERATE to the host and hurts contests A LOT LESS, as fill ins can be used or eliminations adjusted.

I'll probably add more to this rant later, but for now I just had to get this off my chest...

I know that I have droped out/withdrawl a few times the last moth because of my personal situation right now with that said:

I know that I am doubtful about having someone as a judge if I know they have droped out of a lot of contest lately, then I will pm the person back and ask if they have thing sorted out, so the have time to judge then needed. This is not a bulletproof system, but I give people a second change and I think people have the right for that. And it shows that we do care about them.

I always count on people dropping out and take more people in then I intended from the start. If I have a large contest running I will be more strict about deadlines then then I only have 5-7 people.

I think the big problem about dropouts is that people tend not to check their calender before they enter a contest - if you know that you have to go on hollyday for a week, two weeks from now - it is not a good idea to join a contest that have a shot that week unless you know how to work around that problem.

I think a part of the problem is that it can be hard to see then the round stops as the deadline is not clearly stated *going to start it in my own contest in a sec* and therefore some people overlook the deadline. I know that I don't always check four sites backwards to see when the deadline is if I think I know then it is.

We've been trying to figure out what to do with this since several months ago but we came to the conclusion that there really isnt much that can be done. Its such a large thing that if we start banning people for it we would eventually have most of the board banned and that would jeopardize the forum since we arent that large to begin with.

So really its the judge's duty to make sure they have some sort of backup plan like have a list of pending members that are automatically in the contest (during its beginning stages) if someone has to drop out. I also like the idea of the "blacklist", I personally will be doing this when I start MSCG3. Anyone who has dropped out of a contest of mine or is notorious for dropping out from contests in general will have trouble getting a spot in that contest.

Maybe if more and more judges do this, the notorious drop outs of the forum will rethink what they are doing and be more careful and less frequent with it? I hope so.

ah drop outs, I had 5 this cycle in SNTM. So that leaves 5 girls who actually took part full time in the contest. No I know that one person internet went out, two with school, but two who just well, never said anything.

What I hate the most is when someone drops out because they have too many things going so they say, then as soon as theyre out of yours theyre in 6 more. That really bugs me.

blacklisting ia a great idea. I already have one going as to whom i am werry(sp) about entering my contests.

Ill add more later too.

Like what's already been said, it's hard to do anything about the drop outs. We can "blacklist" contestants who drop out/don't show but then how will they ever get another chance to join another contest? And like I mentioned when this was discussed with the other mods, hosts can be responsible for making backup plans or whatever. But what if you *can't*. I'm hosting the Hip Hop Contest with 2 other members and we *thought* we'd at least get 3/4 of the contestants we wanted. But we ended up with half. So we changed our way of doing the rounds and judging. Then 2 contestants went MIA so we were down to 4 and then 1 more lost her sim when backing up her game. So we were stuck with only 3 contestants. If we could have backups, we sure as heck would have loved them. But that was beyond our control. But we enjoyed having those 3 contestants and I think they enjoyed the contest.

I really don't know if there can be a happy medium because like I said, people who are "blacklisted" won't ever be able to join the "more popular" contests and given another chance. And those hosts of contests who don't have the privilage of having a hoard of people jumping to join their contest can't have a backup plan that includes backup contestants. And you can only cut so many photoshoots.

drenee81 - I agree with you. I do not wish to backlist anyone.

Most people have good resones for dropping out it is just sad then it happens in the small contest wiht only 5 people. Then you run a contest of 25 people it shuld not really matter if 2 or 3 people drop out. Naturally there are a few (very few) people you just can't trust to hand in their pictures, but most people who drop out of contests have good resons to do so. I just wished that people would look at their calender before joining a contest.

Its hard to not blacklist someone who you've seen drop out of countless contests. Ive had members enter my last two contests and I thought "uh oh, I know you drop out a lot"...and I wasnt wrong, they did end up dropping out.

And I agree, its most aggravating when they drop out and you see them enter other contests right after. Ive seen this too so personally it would be hard to not blacklist these people.

Just a suggestion, perhaps if someone drops out of a contest for no reason (no notice, no photo, no explainatio) then they could be put on Probation and only allowed to join one contest at a time. This way, people who are "black listed" can still have their one contest to try and prove that they can be reliable. If the contestant further proves that they cannot be reliable with their one contest, then they could be put on a more serious form of Probation where they cannot join any contests for a period of time (say, one month). After that month, then they can only join one contest like before. If they STILL cannot be reliable, then I sincerely think they should be banned from joining any contests for a SIGNIFICANT period of time.

Just an Idea

Thats a good idea . I think we thought about something similar to this but concluded that it might be a lot for us to keep track of since so many people do drop out.

So I say it should be up to the host on what they want to do. Not every host will blacklist, some will. It should be up to them.

From what I've noticed, it isn't necessarily a lot of people dropping out of contests... it tends to be the same people joining a number of contests and then dropping out of each one.

So Person A joins 3 contests, and drops out of each one - There's three drop outs, but the same person.

Perhaps one or two people could be incharge of "Policing" contests by keeping records of who drops out of what when and for what reasons and then inform Contest Hosts at the beginning of their contests to be on the look-out for certain members. Then the host could decide if they want these members who are on Probation to be allowed to join their contests. Kind of like, "Take them at your own risk"

If a contestant drops out, the host could give a "Report" to the "Police" and then the drop out will be added to sort of a Master List with dates, contests, reasons, etc.

But in the end, that is blacklisting again.

True. I guess there's no way around the black listing if we really wanted to do something about the Drop Out problem. It's sort of a Catch 22... Take these people and be fair to them but endanger your contest, or reject them because of their mistakes and preserve your contest.

Personally, I would LIKE to take people into contests based on their talent and such... But I would rather have someone who's not as talented but reliable than a someone who is an amazing artist but drops out of contests.

I agree with you I would like to give everyone a chance but if they are ruining their own reputation here then there isnt much that can be done.

I hope we eventually figure something out. Drop outs really ruin a host's plans. I remember a drop out completely ruined a teamwork round I had in MSCG2 and also ruined a round where I assigned something else.

Then there was the boy bunny contest...Im serious, even though it was small (only 8 girls), we seriously just had only 1 actual elimination the whole contest b/c someone would drop out each week.

Haha... As a contestant in MSCG2... I was thankful for dropouts! Without all the drop outs, I highly doubt that my Sascha would have made it to the top two!

As for SimBoy Bunny... That was annoying. As a judge, I felt like I wasn't doing anything because all of the judgings were for nothing since eliminations were by default!

I really hope something can be figured out... I know for the latest cycle of Face of Syndicated Sims, we started with 10, and by the second photoshoot, only had 6.